JACK NEUFELD

2/18/92 TOLEDO, OHIO

I was living there until Hitler come in, I was living in a village and I was the only Jewish boy going to the school. Later we moved into the city, and I later learned about Judaism. I went to a Polish school, and when Hitler came in, 1939, September, they used to take us out, slaves, working, cleaning this place, fixing the railroad tracks, all kinds of different work, highways, at that time we got to go home, we had our own house, we had our own bed, they eliminated this and made a ghetto, you were only allowed so many rooms, three or four rooms, and I had five brothers. My oldest brother was David, and my other brother was Sidney, then I had another brother, Israel, and Moses. None of them survived, my mother’s name was Rusha and my sister’s names were Maria, and I had a sister Estelle, none of them came back. I remember in 1942, when they sent them away, I found out years later they went to a place called Belzec, it was a place where they killed the people, nobody ever come out to tell what happened, how it happened. It was very bad; I did not have anyone from my family survive. I lived in my town, I had seventy or eighty first cousins, none of them survived. So, I am left alone without a brother, without a sister, without a cousin, it was bad. Later I decided to come to America to find my freedom, I love it so much. My brother in this picture had a party with over twenty-five people, none of them survived.

I was living in a town and mostly no Jews were living there, I went to school and it was hard to be Jewish there, they always discriminate, they hate you. Some would call, “Jew, Jew, Hitler is behind you.” They call out other things, in Polish, that meant the same thing, “Hey Jew, peek behind you.” I had a tough life, the people I lived with did not complain too much, I was the only one living there, so they are accepting me, but I could not get any kids to visit me, except when they visit me it was to throw stones at the Jew, to hate. When I was living in a town, a city where I was to learn all about Judaism, it did not like us there either, they would beat up the Jewish people. The Jews had a market, and the Polish people did not want the Jews having it. So, it started a pogrom, it was Friday night, and everybody used to take walks, everybody was scared, I took a walk with a buddy of mine. We fight back, everyone telling us do not fight back, put your head down, do not fight back, put your head down. We did not take those things; we were young and didn’t allow them to fight. You got arrested and one kid I remember, was beaten up so bad he died, he was murdered. They let us loose and I was scared I did not know what they would do to us, they caught us and beat us, and we beat them back, it was a tough life in Poland to be a Jewish boy. I remember some Jewish people wearing a yarmulke get beat up and I used to think, maybe they should not wear it, be so pious, and that way does not stand out that they are Jewish, but people were religious in Poland. I think maybe this makes an anti-Semite, but I do not think so, they do not like you, they do not like you either way. I look Jewish, I could not hide, I could not runaway, they look at me, I look Jewish. That was life in Poland, it was bad, then when Hitler came in it was really bad, the people were taken to work in the crematorium, then later they got others to work at the crematorium and those earlier ones go to the crematorium. By the end we thought we will all be killed out.

They make me work another few days, so I was working then for an airplane company named Messerschmitt. They said they keep me there later for the death march. They see how bad it is, they got a message, so I decided to run away. That is what I did, a friend of mine and I ran in the woods, and I laid down in a tree. I see the SS man go by, so later I come out. I looked to see which way to go. I started walking toward a small town, I did not know it yet. I walked by a village by a farmer who had a windmill going around. I told him, “We got to stay; I cannot make it anymore.” He said, “Okay.” In the villages there were Polish farmers, and we would help them on the work. I had a coat over other clothes, civilian clothes. He accepts us and I told my friend, Dr. Blume, “We have to get up early to feed the cattle, to show that we are really farmers.” I tried to live; I may not live if I tell him I am a Jew, but he may not care. In the morning after thinking about it he told us, “You guys are going to have to leave, I do not need you anymore.” I remember that day very well, I looked and saw American tanks and I said, “We are free.” I went down to tell them I am leaving, and he said, “You do not have to leave here now, the house is full of Nazis.” I could have been killed, but they are just as scared as I am, and did not kill me. The next morning, I left the farm and went to the city. I thought I would work, but somebody might kill me, but I would stay at least a week. I was afraid to walk on the sidewalk. I was scared to go to the square, maybe I am not allowed in the square and someone might stop me or beat me up or something. I could not believe it; I am a free man. It was the happiest hour of my life. I will never forget it. I saw the American star on the tanks. It is hard to explain, at that time I did not care if I live or not, but now I want to live longer, I got to see freedom, I saw an American, I lived long enough to see an American.

This is the story of my life I told you a little bit about, but I got it mixed up, I told you about Poland, the end of the war, and the war. I have something else I want to talk about, to tell you, we used to go out in the city, it was a nice city. We used to go for walks, but it was not safe to walk around the city. A lot of times you would get a pogrom and get beaten up, but we were not scared so we fought back. Thursday, they have market day when they have things for sale, they put on in the square. You want shoes, you try on shoes, they had everything. Some Polish kids do not like us, so they try to have a pogrom and beat us up, but we fought back. I had an older brother, he was a man already that goes to college, he does not take that, he fought back.

My dad made a big mistake, he had a friend by the name of Itzhak Saltzman, he used to have a bar for beer, and he had other businesses too, very wealthy, and would say to my dad, “You got America here.” He did not realize you have children, parents, brothers, sisters, other friends, and relatives that would not survive, so what good would it be to survive. He had a chance to survive because he knew someone, like rations, if you know someone you get better rations, so more of a chance to survive. Sometimes you had a little extra package, you did not have anything at home, Adolf Hitler took everything away already. When we slept, we thought the war would be over soon, when America gets in the war, it will be over soon. Americans were strong, my dad always said, with the Americans in it, it will be over soon. We waited too long; he would never get a chance to see it. I heard America came twenty or thirty miles from Auschwitz, they would not bomb. I cannot speak against the Americans, if they choose to do it or not, but I think it would have been a good thing to do. It would tell the world, “Hey, do not kill the Jews, we are here.” If they hit the ovens and it took them forty-eight to sixty hours to get it working again, think how many lives it would save, because it was going all the time. I think it would have been a good idea. I thought the American president was good, but when I got to America, I read some magazines and he would talk out of one side and then the other side. I read magazines at the library and they claimed America did not know it; they did know it. I stayed in a basement with a courtyard, and they showed me how they took people with machine guns. If they take people like that, where you think they going to take them to, a nice place, they take them for killing. I think America knew too when they saw the pictures. Why didn’t they do something? We were human beings, for God’s sake. I had a little dog, I could not have done to it, what they were doing to people. There was a person they hung upside down by his feet for eight hours. Every time an SS man would walk by, he gave him a whip. He was lucky to still be alive. He was offered a bite of some Jewish meat, and he took it and ate it, and for this, he hung upside down for eight hours. I was only about fourteen years old when I see this, it was very tough to be a Jew. I remember, when I had a baby, I told a Rabbi, I do not know if I want him circumcised. I do not want him to suffer like I am, if I lost him, he might be better. Another thing I heard, in America; most people are circumcised, so I would not be recognized. My two brothers did not look Jewish like I do, so they decided to get Gentile papers, so they would survive, but they got killed. Especially at Christmas and times like that, they check you if you are circumcised. I look Jewish so I could not do anything, so I hang on to it.

I remember one time, they took us they call it, they were building a new camp in, Krakow Yablonski, Yablonski, used to be an old Jewish cemetery, they took us out to take the monuments out, they build a factory making clothes for the Germans, uniforms, shovel handles and other things that the industry built there, we worked for them. To make sure we are doing well they kept shooting people. There was another man, across the camp, called Yuloff, and he was told to take us over to a Ukrainian, to shoot us out. I saw how bad it is, on the outside the cemetery there is a little wooden toilet. I run in there, but before I run in there, the Jewish police called an order, they are going to check us, do not run away, stay here. I have to fight for my life, so I went in there, and there was a little window at the back, so I kicked it out with my head, I could see the cemetery was going up like on a hill. I could not walk, so I moved on my belly, so they would not see me. I did this before they came, the Ukrainian with the machine gun. The Ukrainians were working with the SS, you know. They were bad people; they were worse than the Germans.

I got out on a street in Krakow, and I see a group goes into the ghetto, they were called, Cabel, because they worked for a place called Cabel. The leader of this group took me in, he knew me, and when I came in, there was a friend of mine named David, he came from a bigger city called Lodz. He was already a married man, he had a wife and a couple kids. His wife came crying to me when she saw me, “What happened to my husband? Where is my husband?” I could not tell her he was shot in the head. The other man that was sent for the Ukrainian with the machine gun, came to me and asked, “What should I do?” I told him, “I do not know, you will need to hide there.” He went over there, and he was laying there hiding and he took off his cap, and he was bleeding, and he put all his gold jewelry in his cap, a few hours later the Jewish police brought him back to the ghetto, he was alive and got treatment. His wife begged me to go back to get money to him, I did not want to go back, but I did, and I brought her his cap with the jewelry, she can sell on the black market, she can live on that, and can get the kids something to eat, everything is expensive and costs you big money.

Later there was another Judenrein in the ghetto and I think they all went to Belzec, his whole family did not make it. There were times you walked by Polish people and they would want to sell you bread. So, you would take it and sell part to get another piece of bread. It was illegal but what was legal, it was not legal to be living, but either way, you had to eat. Later when they filled up this camp, we had to build it bigger, while they liquidate the other camp. They took me over to work and then there was another time that they were doing a shooting out, and I thought to run away, but I was strong, maybe they will use us, so they took us to work and that is all they did. I got known by some Ukrainians, I go over, thought I could do some business with them. I tell them, “I buy some bread, he makes money, I make a little.” One time I had, they like, Polish boots, fancy made, I had, a guy asks me, “How much you want for those shoes?” I did not ask for any money, $5, $10, $20, what for, he wants them, he shoots me and takes them off. I said, “Here are your boots.” He gave me a couple; I did not care. It did not matter what I wanted, boots no boots, he can do what he wants. The more we talk, the more things come to me, other things, mixed up, you have to bring it up at the right time, the right way. It was a tough life the more that I think about it. I could probably write a book, if I knew how to bring it all up. There is no way to describe, they had us stand on Appel (roll call) on one knee, and then do squats, up and down, up and down, boy was it tough. We used to stand on Appel for hours to see them hang people. It was so bad I could not stand it, they forced you to watch it, so what could I do. They just picked a few people for no reason and hang them up. Sometimes they catch someone trying to run away and did that too.

It was bad, so I opened my own business. This is the story of my life, I still have feelings for my mother and father, not as much though, as when I was younger. I never been back to Poland, I was scared of them. I have a lot of property; I even gave one of my buildings in Poland, to a cousin that has been good to me. I told him he can sell it, make any improvements, anything, as long as he does not make any bills for me. He might make a little money, instead of the government getting it. Maybe the old government will die out, and the new government might not let you own property.

I was hiding with a preacher in a village. Villages used to have signs up, ‘Jews and dogs not allowed.’ Over there I think I would be safe because Hitler would not think there would be Jews. So, when they say Judenrein I went and hid at that preacher. He was paid off, but ok, we could get message and get them out, such and such was machine gunned, and such. They found some Jews by the Jewish cemetery and shoot them out, then they found more Jews because someone sold them out, got paid to turn them in, people were hiding in different places. We paid the Polish fire department not to say where we were, some people bring messages about who was in hiding or who was killed and how. One day they did not like us, so they decided to lock us up, we ran out of money, so they are going to lock us up. Everybody was then scared to get out, I remember I was first to get out, I had to pick up a door, over a place where you store potatoes from the outside. I peeked out the door and I get out and I run away to Krakow. I walk at night, by day I hid, so no one will recognize I am a Jew. When I got later to Krakow, I was looking for a place I could stay overnight, I did not have anything for this expense, but before I looked around, the Jewish police, called an order, and they picked us up, I saw a lot of more people there, maybe six or eight people, we all thought it is not going to happen to us. We asked where we were going and one of them said, “You are the Himmel Kommando.” I do not know if you know it, but the Himmel Kommando means you are going to see God. They took the people there and after the war, I do not know if there are any left. Every morning they took us out and clean and we took out all the monuments, it was a huge Jewish cemetery, and we took them down and each time there were fewer of us, the strong and healthy ones, I am glad I was strong. Each time they would machine gun more people. You could not get sick for no reason, each day you went back to the ghetto to rest. It is hard for me to talk about it so much, do you have any more questions you would like to ask me?

I found out I lived 30 miles from Auschwitz, but I did not know about Auschwitz. Now I would like to go to see it, but my wife says it will make me sick. I would like to go to Belzec, I think my folks got killed there. The reason I think they were killed there, is because I got something from Israel saying it could be Belzec or Sobibor, but there was not enough information to be definite. We were told there was a Judenrein, the Jewish police wanted gold so there would not be a Judenrein, my father went with others to go get the gold. When he came home, he said there will not be a Judenrein, it was September 1942, but we still hided. People were in hiding with Polish people. My mother was ill and needed special baths, but they were expensive, so she did not go. So, they come in and took us out, we heard some fighting and some shooting.

I do not think the Polish people cared for Jews. I had a friend, a boy, and we were doing homework, Christian, I was the only Jew, I lived around the factory at that time. He had a job working for the Germans shoveling something. I said to him in Polish, “Kalal,” that was his name, would you get me some water when it goes by. They took us by a factory, there was a big place, like a soccer field where they put the people to send away to the camp. They were all laying there for a couple days, the train got away the same day. They put the ladies, the young girls, only women they sent them away right away to the camp, they locked up the car, the people screamed and cried, no water, we were around there, we heard the scream and cry. A Ukrainian on top and the train took off right away. It was such a hot day and this Kalal, that I called over, I asked, “Would you please go over there and get me a little water?” I knew the water was not healthy. He said, “Would you give me your sweater? Would you give me your coat? You won’t live anyhow.” I thought maybe I live; I know how hard it is out there and I liked the coat. Who knows how long I may have to lay out there, once I laid outside for a long time, many days? But I do not know what, maybe I will live. I did not like that idea, so they will not help me. We were friends in school, he should not take from me. “You will not need it; you should give it to me.” I used to help him with his homework. Being a Jewish boy, I did not have to work on Saturday. They had a holiday on Sundays. I was not deeply religious, so Saturdays I spent playing around. I would go into the synagogue and stand where my father could see me, and then I would walk back out. That is how it happened a lot, nothing good to remember about it. He never did bring me the water. Maybe he was scared or something of the SS, but there were so many people they could not watch them all.

We did not have a ghetto where I was living. The Jews were kicked out of the front of buildings and had to live in a couple of rooms at the back of the building, even if they owned the building. Maybe they were scared of the Jews, I don’t know. Some rich Jews who were thrown out from big cities moved in. If you have money, you can live a little better, you could buy produce, but everything was so expensive. We were lucky, we had a lot of things, we were better off than the ghetto.

 

JACK NEUFELD

10/26/92 TOLEDO, OHIO

INTERVIEW 2

I was born in 1922, and I took the trip back to see the city where I was born and raised. I am going to tell you the trip lately, what I experienced when I went back to the old world, into Belzec, and to later, Auschwitz. My name is Jack Neufeld, and I gave you the year when I was born, 1922, now we will talk about my experiences with the latest trip.

I took in some different prison camps, which I visited. I had some pictures I took, thousands of people from there they went out, to ship them to different camps, some got shot right there. I took a picture of it to show it, what happened in Poland, the city, our Shul was not allowed. The Jews there and then, not too many left, as only a couple of Jews left, and they all got killed out, Muslims did this. We took another trip and went to a camp called Treblinka. I took some different pictures of Treblinka, and how the people died and how they killed them. They had to dig deep ditches, it is almost a mile, later they killed them in those camps. I took some pictures over there and I had a friend who took me around in the car. To see where my mother, brother, and sister were killed. Some organization put up their names, countries, and names, and where people got killed in. I do not know exactly, in the millions, 100,000, and this one shows their names. There were monuments to some people who got killed. There were monuments from all different places that people got killed, one was a teacher went with the kids, and he said he would sacrifice his life, so kids can go, he go with them too. This was at Treblinka; he went with the children. The monuments for the people who were killed is 600,000 people, there must have been other people, who come from my town, this is how I lost my mother and my two sisters, and they had two babies, my brother too, so nobody came out alive from that camp.

It was very bad, in the future, maybe I will show you, there is more to show you. How big they were.  I saw another monument within the camp, there is not much to find anymore, it became stones, everything was gone. I walked around in the camp and tried to explain it but did not realize how big the camp was and always big deep ditches. The world should know it, the world should know it really happened. I decided to go in October, over there, and see it with my own eyes, what happened. Show the children what happened, about Treblinka, so when they grow up, they would know it happened. Where Jewish generations, Jewish people got killed over there, millions. I myself, feel terrible about it, I lost a lot of my family, first cousins at least 670. Whether it is now to talk about it, to mention about it, now you can see what really happened, if you look at the films, you can see it what happened, there was a murdering over there, that was no way civilization. It was always in the woods, so nobody can see it, they do not know why it was necessary, to have those wires and electricity, you could never get out, just like a slaughterhouse. Smiling, killing every day. They used to take into 20 train cars at one time and 130 people in each, each day another twenty cars would follow, that is the way they let them out.

So, for now, I hope it never happens again, never again can we see those ditches, the Nazi dug deep ditch is where they ended up. I think the last one attacking, he took it out on my wife. I tried to explain to my own new wife, to know it how deep and how far to walk. I got back to the town I was born in after 50 years. I went back to see the town alone, there is a risk in every place. In Krakow we stopped to visit the preacher at his house. They want me to take some pictures of his church. I was raised in his house, now I would be allowed to live in it. At the apartment I lived with my parents, a lady tried to tell me, I did not question that she said, “They took out everything.” I did not ask her who took it out. We took it out, maybe she thought I am coming back for something, so she decided to tell me there's nothing there, everything was taken out. Her grandson took us over, she was not far from the cemetery, there is a monument, that they killed the Jews. The lady asked me if I would show him my passport, so she said, “That way she trusts me with her son. “I want to see your passport,” so I show it to them. They took the people out, whoever got caught later, and they took them over, then they shot them with machine guns, they were close. Our town’s synagogue does not look so good anymore, it is in destruction, although I took a picture of the synagogue. When I lived there, there was a factory I never visited. This is the town I went to school at the other end of the eternal world.

I was brought up with cheating, in fact I seen a teacher, I asked, “Can I come and talk to him privately, to ask if he ever heard about Jews. “May I ask if they seem as humans, they seem as you were, they know what you look like.” I went to school one day; I had a grandpa living and I had some cousins living right there with him, in a huge, big home. It is not far from that school and then I found out they shot them all in the house. Nobody survived, so I do not know what they did. My grandpa had said, “My mother’s sister was living there, my other cousins were living there.

I was in many camps before I went to Flossenberg, but in the end, I ran away. I had to feed myself and American troops were coming, and I felt I was a new man again. You work, you be free, they tried to fool people, tell them they will be free. The same thing was going on other places, killing millions of people. Every day there was an Appellplatz, you had to stand to be counted every day. People had beds and people slept with each other, 3 high, sleeping on that. Nothing was known about block 11, in Auschwitz, it was known for execution, they killed those waiting for execution. I was lucky I was not there, so I can now talk about it. It was very dangerous; you could get killed and they watched you, it was too late for them.

I went back and I decided to see it again, with my own eyes, after 50 years, to see the people that may not be missing. I am Jewish and I speak up on Jewish matters. Whatever you had to do, you had to go to Jewish places. Poland is supposed to be free, they would have some Jewish people, but nobody would want to go back. I went back thanks to your first interview; I really appreciate it. In Poland, I liked going back where I was born. That is all my history of them, I am blessed to be alive, and I do not want anything from them.