NATHAN GARFINKEL

3/8/92 SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN

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 Nathan Garfinkel, born in Poland in 1920. By the ‘30s when you went to public school the comforting wasn’t as I did expect from my Polish friends. But I still had Polish friends who tried to elaborate with me, mainly about education, which I please, but not many done it. I remember one time I invite my friend, Polish friend, to come with me to the Temple, which he did, and he tried to reciprocate, to invite me to the church, but I found out later on his parents told him no. Which since then I never been until I came over here or to Germany after the war the first time my lifetime, I saw a Catholic church. Because Poland had only mostly Catholics, mostly, I don’t know it was Protestant over there the only Protestant I know was Ukrainian, the Russian Orthodox, as far as I know it. But then I couldn’t understand until 1933, or ‘34 when I finished public school, and I couldn’t finish public school, I was harassed in public school. Not to make any accusations, which I don’t believe in collective guilt, but I was, my civil rights was taken away by 1934-35 when I was about 13-14 years of age, and late in 1935, I felt it more than ever before. By ‘35 the famous Marshall of Poland which we were very very friendly, to Jewish people, his name was Pilsudski, a lot of Jewish people fought with him in 1919, after the war against the Bolshevik revolution was over, and this has many Jewish friends. But, when he died, he took the equality between Jews and non-Jews with him. Then, the real thing, the separation starts, and I felt the anti-Semitism more than ever before. ‘35, when he died, until then he controlled it. Pilsudski was his name. Then we found out, Hitler came to power in ‘33, which I was too young to know about it, and then one thing brought it to the other one why I was different, which I didn’t feel like being different, but I was, I was harassed in school many times. For instance, I never liked national history, and history I loved. But I loved global history, but they taught me to read Polish history. The system over there, it was much different, they tried to blind me off that I couldn’t read something else what I liked and learn something else about Poland, my home, my home country where I was born. For this, I was harassed, that I was not a Polish patriot. Whatever took place, was when Hitler came to power in ’35, I found out by ’36, I read a little bit about the Nuremberg law. We just passed the German 1945, 1935. Then I know is something is not clear in Europe anymore. Then by ’36 the Spanish revolution, I found out more about it. Who fought over there in the Spanish revolution, Nazis, Germany fought about in Italy? Italy couldn’t say why they fought about it, ok. But I couldn’t understand all those things. I tried to look for the, the motivation, and I still couldn’t find it. The more I tried to look for it the more I got lost in it, not knowing about what took place. But then, in ’36, May of ’36, I saw the friendship between Poland and Nazi Germany, because by ’36 or ‘37 especially, they invite Mr. Goring to go hunting in Poland. This hit me, because being in Poland, and looking at the geography of Poland is sandwiched in between two subversive powers. I couldn’t understand why Poland didn’t go to Russia. Because Russia offered them help, whatever took place, I do not know the details. Politically I know nothing about it, because they could not truly express themselves. You cannot go from an atheist country, asking for help, not knowing then that going to Germany, what proceeds, what follows up the consequences, you see. The perception wasn’t there. They didn’t understand, perhaps there was something, for one reason or another reason they went to Germany, this is why they invited Goring for a hunting trip or whatever took place. Right after hunting season, the military they leaned more to the Western Powers. For one reason, Germany was strong, this why they went to the West better. Then the anti-Semitism was even more so, because the Nazi movement start in Germany, not a Nazi movement that is Germany, but a Polish national movement, anti-Semitic movement. They call it an Andekus, and this starts in Poland, and for them you have to be afraid. I mean you can kill a Jew and not being prosecuted. It just didn’t happen every day; they call themselves Polish patriots, clean of Jews. Helping Poland, in order the Church help them too. The Church was on the side of the anti-Semites, that is why I said I never been to a church, I couldn’t go to a church, I never been to a church until after the war. This was the Church help them to do those things that I was order, a God killer. Probably there was a book written later, I found out later, The Fixer, we knew this than, but not from the book. Like Beilis killed a Christian kid, for the blood of Passover, and this I didn’t understand it, I still couldn’t understand those things. Why me, If Beilis killed and my name is not Beilis, my name is Garfinkel. I was called Beilis every place I go. This is happening by the ‘30s, ’36, ’37. Way before the invasion of Poland by the Nazis, it didn’t take the Nazis to being anti-Semitism to Poland, but they helped them. Nazis give them the idea where they are going. I was called, for instance, by 1936, I cannot tell you exactly, Poland was no Habeas Corpus, understand one thing. Frisk and search, if people telling you now Poland was a democratic society, no, it was an autocratic society, the Church ruled. I am not a church member how can I do it, ok. They made a law that everybody must have an ID card with them any place they go to, and without an ID card, they get arrested. Frisk and search were legalized any place you go into, but I was more so, on my ID card, what happened with children above 14 years of age, has to be put in, Jew.

Which means if I am Jew it’s different. I will give you a little experience; I have a friend over there, a Polish friend over there, he was a beautiful kid, Yusef Zubofski. We raced bikes he was a cyclist too. The school made up, this was in ’35, I think ‘35 before the war. We run a circle, about 120 kilometers, a few people, we board a bus, everybody left out, both of us kept going. Then he tried to beat me, not because hating me, but because he wants the first one, a competition. Some truck passed by, a little truck and he put his hand on the truck the truck pushed him, the truck was going 40 kilometers an hour and I couldn’t go more than 20 or 25 kilometers. Finally, I beat him, the truck didn’t go very far, I beat him. I was accused that I hold onto the truck. I said Yusef, you know about it. He said be quiet. Not for disliking me, but everybody wants to win. There is nothing to it ok, it’s only a token, Yusef won the prize ok. This took place, but later on, when I have the same guy, the same Yusef in our hometown, a small city named Chmielnik, the movie run only weekends, the whole week there was no movies, except special occasions. If you have to go to the movies, there is a bigger city Kielce. Oh, I take a ride to go to the movie houses in Kielce, there were three movie houses 4 movie houses in Kielce, a bigger city. This was the capital city of our, of our, state. Ok go to the movie. Coming home it was late; we have to have light on the bike. If its dark outside, if not you get a ticket for this. But we came back it was dark already, we didn’t expect, anticipate being late when it’s dark. Police stopped us in the city. They put me in jail for this but not him. Neither one of us had lights. They put me in jail because of the ID card. Then I was not only jail until my father came next morning. He paid 5 dollars or 5 zlotys a fine, out. Was nothing-in jail, but they make the distinction between me and him. I still could not comprehend those things until when later on anti-Semitism got worse and worse and worse. By ’38, we found out what took place, the Crystal Night, and by ’38 a lot of Polish Jews who went to Germany for economic reasons, you knew about it, were shipped back. French Jews were shipped back. Polish Jews, mostly Polish Jews at the border, were shipping with other Jews. Jews came back from Germany. We know what’s going on here. But still didn’t believe didn’t what brings to tomorrow. What’s going to be the next day? What’s going on over there? And then by the end of ’38, we know the war, is a preparation for war. But not knowing its going to be a global war. All right a European war, took place any place. France and Germany always fought together. I mean against each other. In the eighteenth century, I mean the nineteenth century. Anyway, the war broke out. We felt it.

Our city was taken over in two days that the war starts. I will never forget it; we know the war started on the first of September this happened on a Friday. Saturday night the Germans came in. But, was a curfew, we couldn’t go out. By Sunday morning, we found out what took place. It was two Temples, one a cement, a brick Temple, a big one which is still there. They made a warehouse from it. And one was a small Temple; they call it a Hasidic Temple. All the big big Temples, which my father belonged to a Hasidic Temple. You know what a Shtebu is, a Chrismo Rabbi. But this bigger Temple, they picked up about 12 most prominent Jews, this was Saturday night, the second or the third, and put them in the Temple and burned the Temple. Escaped, none was burned, but by escaping, they killed two and the rest, a few got injured too, but by escaping, they killed two, by escaping. The escaping I refer to about is written in Germany after the war. With this, they call justifiable killing. Killing while escaping. If a Nazi tells you don’t run, better stay still, they are very precise with it. Guess what their excuse was they tried, who’s going to escape from a fire ok. There is a question mark, how Nazi Germany two day just came in from a strange country some didn’t speak any Polish. Most of them speak Polish that is true. But, how did they know who the prominent Jews are? Collaboration took place ok. But I wouldn’t accuse, if you see Polish people, I got a Polish man over there in Toledo, his brother we went to Poland we met his brother over there, and I told him the same thing. Have a friend here a teacher’s aid over there in Michigan a Polish lady she said the same thing, with her father’s different whatever took place over there. I’m here, not here to use collective guilt, and many times, many Poles, many poles hide, and Jewish people call them now the Righteous Gentiles, Righteous Gentiles. But the legalization was there, if I was to kill a Jew, I can do it without repercussions. And lots of done it and lots of refused it but in Poland if they realized what it was in Poland before ask any Polish historian. I give you another thing. Any historian, I am willing to face them, I am Polish, my brother died for Poland, he was in Polish army, and he died. But he died from the Nazis not from Poland. Here is another thing, this is important. There was a Polish guy who knows about it. They create in ’35, I cannot tell you exactly when, I think ’35 maybe before then, a detention camp called Karpas Beretta. We called it a detention camp then, without any process of law, without any Court order, like habeas corpus. Mostly were Jews over there because Jews were called Communists. We had Communists, I do not say no, but mostly the Communists were Jews in Poland but were other people too. They have many many but has Communist, Communist ideas were suppressed. I could go out and be a Polish Guy and pinpoint, this Jew is a Communist. Nobody asked me a question to testify against him. He was put in a detention camp. This was in ’35. Why, not according to court order, because he is Jewish. Now I proceed a little further down, which later comes to my point. When I came to camp by ’39, the summer of ’39, I was dressed casually. They called me, you communist American capitalist Jew. If you have the knowledge to think about it, I was not in Karpas Beretta, I was never there I was too young to know about it. But I was a Communist, I didn’t know about it. A few months later, when these clothes are torn apart, because by then in ’39 1940, we didn’t have any clothes coming in. I will tell you later why later we had more clothes. It’s falling apart. What they called me later on, you Jew Communist. So, I was poor, first I was this later on I was this, what’s the matter with those people. This I am pointing out; I was a target over there. A Communist call a Communist, a Capitalist call a Capitalist, because Nazis called National Socialism, they socialist did they.

This came back to me, what took place, what took place in Karpas Beretta. Anybody could put a point on Jews as a Communist. But they couldn’t be done my father. My father was a holy man to them. But he was persecuted different ways. There are different ways you persecute persecution. My father almost went to jail, without a Jewish lawyer he would have been jailed for nothing. As you know, I am going next Sunday; I am going to see The Merchant of Venice. My father was almost like Shylock. He did the wrong thing, I can understand. Poles did the same thing. We had a special lawyer his name was Mr. Mandel, and he got my father out. He never went to jail. He went probation for three years. There’s a whole story, I am not going into whole story how things went over there, like another Shylock ok. They couldn’t make him a Communist, at least make him a Communist ok. This took place, being in camp, December ’39, only in a labor camp. The camp was on the border, the new border between Germany Nazi Germany and Russia. As you know, the month before the war started was a pact signed, Molotov and Ribbentrop, that if we should go to war, we stay our side. Russia take one third of Poland, Germans took two thirds of Poland. On this border I wind up, in this camp, and this camp they call Biala Podlaska. On this side the river Bug passes by, Bug. On the other side, on the Russian side, was Brest-Litovsk. Brest-Litovsk is a historical city, where the pact was signed after the Bolshevik Revolution in Brest-Litovsk. We were on the German side, and this took place until the beginning ’41, beginning ’41. This camp was liquidated. Not knowing why, but later on found out why it was liquidated. This was the Russian border, on the new Russian border in Poland. June 22, 1941, Nazi Germany attacked Russia. This camp where we moved out, this camp was made a fortification. Front line, the Bug, the Bug was crossing there. Not knowing what was then but later found out. Then I came home, and home was a ghetto. Luckily, our house happened to wind up in the ghetto see. But, when I came home there were four more people added to our home, because there we had home seven children, my father mother was nine. We had nine children at home but my brother my sister was out from the home because they marry before the war, a year before the war or two years before the war. So, we had seven children, when I came back from the camp, was a ghetto, not as a ghetto free ghetto, but fenced around, fenced around and three kinds of police. Inside the Jewish police, outside Polish police, above the Polish police was Nazis. Being home in the ghetto was people who lived outside the ghetto, who came from Germany, who came from the eastern part of Poland, mostly the western part of Poland. In our house there were four people coming in, a young couple with two children. Instead of nine was thirteen, okay? But everything as long as at home, and my father being a holy Jew, belonged to the Rabbi. The Rabbi said as long as the war, sit and do nothing, God will do the help us, what can I do about it. Then coming home, sit in the ghetto and have to go work every day, out of the ghetto, a guard took me. A Nazi guard not Polish, Polish was helping too, but a Nazi guard took me out. In the ghetto who needs clean a ghetto. Who cares about you? Cleaning the snow, cleaning the streets, cleaning the garden, or the offices from the Nazi party. This took place over there. Another incident, which I can’t recall my father, he still works, one Temple was burned, the big Temple is more reformed, he goes to Yeshiva, he goes Yeshiva which wasn’t far from there, two three blocks. Coming home from the Temple, he goes daily over there, but not in the evening, we could not it was dark already and because of the curfew couldn’t go. In the summertime, he could. Coming home, I saw something is wrong, holding his hand on his beard like that. Coming in the house, he walked in his room and never come out. My mother walked in; when he come out, he has a handkerchief over his beard, over his face like a toothache. I said. ‘what’s a matter?’ Two Nazis caught him and cut his beard. I never saw my father cry, this time I saw it. He cried when his father died. My grandfather died it was the early ‘30s, ’32, I was a kid I never saw, then I saw my father cry. He was a young man. My grandfather was a young man he died, the second time, ghetto. He never walked out from his house, since then, no more. A whole day he was sit over there learning. From fear, whole day sit around wouldn’t do nothing, ended up dead. Now there is something more than that, he was what you would call now a biblical scholar, what ever you would call now. Then was more than he was, they never knew everything, but they wrote. I opened the door once in the morning; a whole day did not go out at all and I saw him praying and I said I saw the prayer was you ever hear what Vidui is; Vidui is Catholics have the same thing, the last rites the last rites. I hear what he says, I said dad why you do the last rites now, you not dying. You want to die, kill yourself. With these hurtful words, I could not do it now. Later on, I felt sorry I said it. He called me and he said it, yes Nate, Nathan, he usually called me that. You know if I kill myself, you know I am a murderer. I kill God’s property, I belong to God, he the only can do it not me. Since than, I think he would forgive me.

A few days later, our city was liquidated, our city was liquidated. But, even our city, as they did the liquidation took place; ever hear of the Wannsee conference, like the Wannsee conference tells you this took place, the Final Solution. You know I have a film here. Reinhard Heydrich was killed in May the same year. They put us in a black mark, a market places a shopping center whatever you called it. And over there was the distinction between old people and young people. They did not go to the buildings, they tell you out, take all your belonging, and go this marketplace outside. We had some ideas because this time the Polish left movement not the Jewish left movement, they call it PPS, the Polish Party of Socialists. They are an underground paper, they know what they dealing. In Poland, there is two kinds of groups. The anti-Semites was for the Germans later on, before they was friends, for later on, it was also and I make a little abbreviation in Polish and I translate, there was AK, AK stands for Army of the land, kra means land, those were the anti-Semites. There was another underground movement they call it the AL, the army of the people. L stands for Ludova, Lu means people. Those two meet each other they fought each other, instead the Germans. Sometimes they had no choice the Germans attack them. They ran with them to Russians. This took place over there. In the marketplace, there goes a bullhorn each building yell, out, take any belonging go out of here, which we took out. Sometimes they go out and they give you a time, to this block was a Nazi give you five minutes time. This was a more precise Nazi he gaves you two minutes time. Remember one other thing it was an old man an old Jewish man he could hardly walk, he took two suitcases with him. To take two suitcases it takes longer. Oh, he says you are a minute late or two minutes late or a second late, bang, killed him, he was late, shot him, it is precise. They are very precise people, Nazis. What we knew then through the underground paper what took place, a day before, a week before, in the neighboring city, this took place over there. Then we were a little prepared but not knowing where the left-hand side is going, not knowing yet. We knew they call it resettlement ok. The right-hand side they call it between fourteen and forty, go to the right. Below fourteen, above forty go to the left. Then the right-hand side was inspected again, and if somebody doesn’t look healthy enough or under nourished, or sick, disabled they went to the left again. Only the right was inspected, on the right where we went to labor camps. In our ways, every church every temple had to go every school through the same thing and with my sister. My sister, how they going to know my age, they said between fourteen and forty, they had no idea. The only thing we got is the armband or the Star of David. This why the right has to be inspected again to where you going to. My mother could go very easy, but she didn’t, where my younger brother younger sister she went with them. A sister, the youngest one then who survived with me here, her name is Eugenia Moskowicz, my older sister put up high heels because she was eleven or twelve put high heels on her and paint her up a little bit she survived. She was called maybe sixteen or seventeen or eighteen. If I send some students over there, she works now at Twelve Oaks at Winkelman's, and I send some students from the schoolgirls over there go and see my sister and you call her she likes the Nazis. She survived; this tells you what took place in this Final Solution. What happened later on was two Final Solutions in my hometown Chmielnik. This took place when I left the first time. By the first time came a few Jewish people collaborated with them and then out to the forest in a little city called Rakov, in the height of winter. They thought this was going to survive but didn’t do it. But Nazi Germany knew about it, there were lots of Jews in this particular city went into the forest, the Nazi Germany was afraid of it. Because they could come out from the forest and they find a threat maybe, they were afraid for their own life. They put up a proclamation out, all those Jews that are hiding in this particular place any place come back in your home nothing will happen to you. They had no choice they came back. Two three months later they were liquidated. By then there was no Jews who was free. Jews were only those who Polish people hide them; nice people hide them, or dead or in labor camp. As far as I know it beginning ’42, ’41 was too but Auschwitz was created ’41, you know who the first victim in ’41, Russian POWs, by the end of ’41, because the Russians start the war start in June, the end of ’41 they were the first victims. There was a testing period. But, by ’42, mainly Jews went to Auschwitz. But I found out that my parents they did not go to Auschwitz they went to Treblinka. Because by then in certain camps I came, I had some contact with Polish people, some Germans too, not very many of them. I couldn’t go some German gave me some information, but some of them, counted like three or four happened to know about it. That the trains who took liquidated my hometown Chmielnik, the engineer from this particular train informed the underground paper that they took them to Treblinka, as far as I know it. When I was there last year, it is going to be two years by July; I took my children to Poland, Germany, Holland, Israel to show them what took place over there. Then I went to Treblinka, never been to Treblinka, I never been to Auschwitz before. See I had I was only in Labor camps, Concentration camps, and Death Marches. I was never in a Death camp, because I was strong enough, healthy enough to produce.

 

PART 2

NATHAN GARFINKEL

3/8/92 SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN

 

Those people in Labor camps who could not produce, who were sick one day, the next day he doesn’t go to work, the next day he gets shot. Because it was obvious to them, why you no go to work, you know you going to get killed you no go to work he shot. Many people died by staying home one day. How they found out, for instance if I come to work, my job could be by machine, a lathe press whatever took place. If I do not come in, my machine is idle. Then they found out who is this number. See we had no name, my name didn’t exist, I had only a number. My number was only in labor camps, 4048, this was my number. This was right on the lapel here on my chest, that’s what it was. Then over in labor camp, then I found out why the first labor camp liquidated was Biala Podlaska, I wind up in a camp, Skarzysko, also in Poland, which was before also ammunition factory under Polish government, and Germans, Nazi Germany took it over. Then by late 1943, by end of ’43, and I had my two sisters went with me in the same first liquidation, the first liquidation. Who are older here, I survived with four sisters, the one, one survivor as far as I know it? Between close to a hundred thousand survivors, by then, now there is about forty thousand left, as far as I know it. A family of seven children survived, four, five with me. What my other two sisters, all were younger I was the oldest one; the oldest one from home was my older brother and older sister who married before the war. They wind up in a potato flour factory. My camp to their camp, from the same city was about three, four miles. I knew where they went over there, and I found out later on too because my camp was the head camp, the capitol of all three camps together, A, B, and C. They came over there first from there or transferred from other camps whatever they needed this was the biggest camp. In our camp, in A there was a bath take baths, I still know what you call it a cleaning bath what cleans a how do you call this, kills germs, how you call it, disinfectant bath ok. From the other camps you came to be disinfected, because this was an order by the Germans too because afraid, they claim lice, infectious disease lice can transfer disease to anybody, mainly Typhus. Then was not a strict law but anybody could go there, because the order advised when they came to my camp to be disinfected, that’s why I met them once or twice see. They told me where they are; bring me a few potatoes they work in a potato flour factory. Some special not a sandwich was a little plate, looked like pressing potatoes together they wouldn’t take to much space in your pockets. The potatoes had been cooked before. Then I know where they are, and thanks to them, I survived. Then they took in coming back I saw them a few times, in this camp and when they came back, I was swollen up because starvation. I would get a potato from them every two weeks, three weeks or two months starvation. I had a friend that told me one time a friend saw me over there says your brother is he’s fat. They talk into this foreman their foreman from potato flour factory, a Mr. Lofskofski, he took me out of this camp and put me over with my sisters. A Nazi, A Nazi, he was a nice way of being A righteous man and he was a Polish Nazi. He was, I think his nationality was German because he lived on the border at least his Polish was named Lofskofski, whatever and he was a righteous person, and he took me into his camp to be with my sisters and this help me survive. What this man saved my life did not just me, hundreds, Lofskofski. I looked for after the war I couldn’t find him, an elderly man here. When I was one time at Rochester High School, academy school not just a high school, and I mention the name say Lofskofski, the principal a lady came with me Nate stop. What this is? We have Lofskofski teacher over here. She called him in. He said I don’t remember, I think we come from this particular place, but I don’t know. He never called me back, probably not the same one whatever it was I tell you the name means a lot to some people. This, thanks to this I survived. Before then, I don’t know according to medical science now, those rations which you got over there, you could sustain life with it three or four months, the most the most as far as I know it. You know a nutritionist told us later on after the war, that in Germany this what we ate over there consist of one hundred and eighty to two hundred and twenty calories than. We don’t know about calories. Two soups a day and a slice of bread about half a pound, one ounce more an ounce less depending on who sliced the bread. I kept losing weight I was swelled up at that time I was swelled up before I came to my sisters, to be taken out of it.

Clothing then we, until ’43, we had clothes. The reason I had clothes we found out later on those people who died in Treblinka, Majdanek, Auschwitz, they shipped their clothes to us, we wear their clothes. I give you a little hint, a little incident what took place after the war with those clothes. I had some friends in my hometown most of them live in Toronto or in Israel, his name he died last year David Kravshik was his name. He was with me in camp until I went to the potato flour factory for ’43. When we received clothes from them, one time he needed a pair of slacks and I needed a pair of slacks. We lived in the same barrack, and he found out that in the cuffing of his pants, feels like a new piece of paper lays over there. He took it out; he found a fifty-dollar bill. See those people, what can a Jew take with them. You put some money here over there, fifty-dollar bill. I took my pants apart. I couldn’t find nothing. When I met him after the war in Toronto, ‘David you owe me twenty-five dollars don’t you?’ Then we this why we have clothes. Was nice from the Nazis wasn’t it. Full control of us, have no clothes wouldn’t have to go to work. But shoes were hard to get, one thing. This took place. Another incident what Mr. Lofskofski done for us, this why I cannot put any allegation for nobody ok. If I find one person, God didn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot came into what he said, If I find ten righteous people, I will not destroy it, if I find five, God said no, if I find one, no. If I find nobody, destroy it. In this time, I found one person, instead of one person I might later two more people. A little thing took place to me, a little incident. My hand, this is my stomach. When by the end we liquidated camps, I am talking about ’44. The Russians came advancing from the east to the west, the first was in ’41, Biala Podlaska, the second one was Skarzysko, the third was Czestochowa. I was in three camps already then Czestochowa, and Czestochowa was right on the German border. They transfer this potato flour factory, from Skarzysko B to Czestochowa, on the border. By November ’44, the Russians kept going. This tried to save the potato flour factory, as far as I know, potato flour was original German invention. The reason why is because Germany is not an agricultural country, industrial country. They looked for some food, which is not perishable. Potatoes are perishable, until you make flour from it. This why they create flours. Then they put us in Czestochowa, and over there I know you going to sound this coincidence and maybe it sounds important to those kids maybe. And I didn’t know then, I know when my other two sisters went to the second liquidation, I know we shouldn’t of went, I know from the underground paper, Kielce was place. But I didn’t know what’s happen to them when those Kielce was liquidated. Suddenly, one day, they came to our camp into Czestochowa. I have four sisters right there I’m the happiest man. A reunion, we know it was coming to end. It was obvious, because any place I come, in all those camps, even in Skarzysko B, had a Jewish man he delivered me an underground paper. He got more paper; underground paper was about half a page. Then I know, the only thing what I knew then what took place on the battlefield. Probably they think we didn’t know about it, what they know about it, what took place on the battlefield. When the battle was lost in Stalingrad, the battle in Leningrad, the battle in Smolensk, oh, Germans coming out. Another thing we knew then in through history, nobody ever won a war on a Russian territory ok. The war is coming to an end. Here are my two sisters from Kielce was liquidated, Skarzysko is liquidated, B is liquidated, Skarzysko B, happy. By dismantling this machine, the potato factory dismantlement, and I know because Lofskofski told me they are going to go out of there, dismantle and put up to Germany, my hand got caught. Wait, before, I go far ahead of me now. When I met my four sisters together, about a day two days later, I was laying, if I had potatoes to eat, I was going on top of my bed, not laying in the middle. You know what the sleeping quarters in the barracks, was four shelves. We called this bunk beds, not bunk beds shelves to go in. On the bottom was they on the floor, and the second one just slides in, from your eyes to the second slats was about ten inches. If you turn over you have to tell the other guy move, I got to turn over this side. Now is be the top, and the top nobody can put dirt on me. Laying on my back, and I remember this vividly it wasn’t a dream, I spoke to God. God you know and everybody know, it’s obvious that the war is coming to an end. I knew than my parents went to Treblinka, nobody left. One my sisters in Russia, my brother I don’t know where he is, he went over to Russia but escaped he was a POW in Russian, because he was in the Polish war. I don’t know, this I know now what happened to those two those four people. If you let me survive, with those four sisters, I will contribute sacrifice something. You know, if a Jew prays to God, he sacrifices something with blood. Even now I can prove it, for Yom Kippur a chicken with everything, a sheep, a goat with everything, but God I have nothing I have no sheep no goat no chickens here nothing, but I promise you I will sacrifice something from my body. Now I try to negotiate with God, I give you those things which I have two of on my body. I only have one nose so I’m not giving you one nose. Two eyes I give you one eye, two ears one ear, two legs one leg, two arms one arm, if you promise me, I will survive with my four sisters, it was coming to an end. Al, this happened next day. Think what you may, next day my hand was caught and burned. Thanks to Mr. Lofskofski, he stopped the machine and took me out, and put me in the barracks and put somebody else on my place. See the German Nazis, for whom I worked for, were some of them a little liberal, some of them a little hateful, whatever you want. Because those Nazis for some reason they have to join the Nazi party. As we know before the war ever took place in Germany, the biggest party in Germany was the Social Democrats. Those Social Democrats had to join for economic reasons the Nazi party, or for fear, I don’t know what. Lots of them were passive. This German Nazi Lofskofski, with the revolver over here and the Swastika over here, and the skull head over there, he had to put somebody to replace me in my place, because the guards was the worst of them, the guards were mostly collaborators, Croatian mostly, Ukrainian. Whatever it was, I am not here for any allegations please. But this took place; the guard brought me to work. If they bring fifty people to work or twenty to work, and I am not there to take me back and he put me in the barracks, then they bring nineteen back where the twenty is. They had for this guard write in twenty people went to the factory, I brought back nineteen, bring them back dead or alive, maybe escaped, this why Lofskofski put somebody else on my place. They placed somebody else then nobody is missing, and I’m in the barracks. The next day, or two days later I can’t remember it, this man brought me bandages. This Nazi, a pack of bandages with kind of salve, and I even asked him, Mr. Lofskofski where you got this from. He told me my son’s girlfriend is a nurse in a hospital, he told me that. I cannot help you anymore. They are going to ship us out of here. That’s right he told me that.

We went to Buchenwald. This is the second concentration camp ever built before the war, ‘37. I forgot, Koch maybe, there was a lady before I came was a lady, Ilse Koch, I never met her, this was only a men camp, then, only for men, that’s all. The only lady I saw over there at camp was International Red Cross, Geneva, if I see them, I will spit on them. Those then I don’t know where those now, International Red Cross Geneva, in Buchenwald, a different story about it. This tells you what the outside globe didn’t know about it. If they didn’t know, they closed their eyes. They were there. They passed by my barrack. My barrack, this was in ’45, the beginning of ’45. You know which barrack they look in, Scandinavian barrack, Scandinavian people they treated better. Only Scandinavian, mainly Danish, Swedish, Norwegians, but when we came to Buchenwald there wasn’t always so bad over there, we pass barracks by they threw bread outside from the barracks, Scandinavian people. When the Nazis saw it, they blocked it off. They didn’t put a fence around it, but they stood around there and guarded it. They took International Red Cross from Geneva and took them pass by all the see the gate was further to us, pass by there, and walked into the Scandinavian barracks to show them and we started yelling to them. Why come to our barracks? The Nazis didn’t like it they push us back, never heard us, but why didn’t they go in. You came for inspection inspect this ok. Like Saddam Hussein now, come inspect, you can only inspect what I show you. I show you what to inspect. This is a little side the point, books are written about it, what the western civilization did us. Coming to Buchenwald, and Buchenwald by then was nothing to do. They tried to tattoo me in Buchenwald give me a number, because labor camp I didn’t have to have a number because I had a number already. Only those people who came from Buchenwald later on they were tattooed. They wouldn’t tattoo me anymore by that time people were tattooed, because there wasn’t any place to ship me anymore. The whole Germany industrial complex, I am talking about November 1944, the German industrial complex was destroyed. There was nowhere to go to work. In Buchenwald, was a Heaven compared to the previous camps, do nothing, starve, die, and kill once in a while, but not mass destruction. Those kinds of things had no mass destruction, had no gas chambers. The only what they have is crematoriums, for the reason to kill the evidence. I was in Buchenwald from November ’44, I forgot the date, I think the end of November until April the ninth, this I remember, two days later Buchenwald was liberated, the eleventh of April. In Buchenwald then my number in Buchenwald was 115, 117. Buchenwald then had close to two hundred thousand people. What happened, they made a death march, in two days, they couldn’t kill in Buchenwald almost two hundred thousand people in two days. The Russians came from the east, the west, the other allies came from the west. Then Buchenwald we nothing to do, we froze to death, died. Then they made a death march and what took place on the death march, is beyond human comprehension, beyond understanding, impossible to believe. They picked out the most heinous the most vicious killers, you have to kill everyday a few people, if he didn’t kill, he didn’t live. If somebody couldn’t kill you, he provoked you to kill you, kick you, and fell down. This they used to call later on, City Hall also interviewed beside medical help after the war, we also need psychiatric help. And one German psychiatrist told us, he asked me what took place, he said he didn’t know nothing about it, but I am not going, if he didn’t know he didn’t want to know maybe, I don’t know, I am not make any accusations. This they call justifiable killing. In a Nazi, in their mind, because if I fell down, I cannot walk, and if I cannot walk, I have been told to kill you. Only through certain provocation he tells me when I was in camp, lunch period, I got called in, go clean my office. Leave a slice of bread on the desk, on his desk, in temptation to take the bread; it’s very big in starvation. I ate the bread or put it in my pocket. I put the bread in my pocket, when he caught me here’s your bread. The one who ate the bread got killed. Provoking that he doesn’t kill a human being. He couldn’t deny I am not a human being physically yes. He couldn’t deny it, but he could deny it, on my mark, I am not just a Jew, I am a thief I stole his bread. For stealing his bread, I am killing a thief. This provocation if he can kill you, he looks a way out in the psychiatry of it don’t you think about it. He kills you very easy makes you mark thief and kills you. And this took place in a labor camp.

Then in the death marches, the death marches will take me here, from day to day, I am writing up now about it. A lady asked me in Florida to write about it, only the death march what took place. I took a few inches to other. What took place on the death march from the ninth of April until the seventh of May 1945, unbelievable. Then I couldn’t understand why, and I still do not know why. An example, we passed by, we walked only at daytime not at night. Because night, for two motivations we didn’t walk at night, first you easier to escape at night the dark, the second the guard looked for help them self. They looked to put us overnight in farmer’s places; in a farm, I was better fed. He can give me some bread, some potatoes. The farmer hasn’t got it; I mean the guard hasn’t got nothing to eat either. He organizes the food. They cannot put us in a jail then they put us in the farmer’s places in the barns, hay barns, straw barns, wherever we slept over there. But the good thing that we had on the death march, we had enough water. This helps a lot, water we had. Stayed at farms we had water over there. Next morning, they called up get out of the sleeping quarters, and they count us. For instance, ten missing we knew we couldn’t escape, everything was locked. Then we found out thought about it, somebody dig down under the straw or in the hay, they hide themselves and after we leave the war is coming to an end. We knew then the war was coming to an end, they knew it too. They had dogs; there were dogs, German shepherd. They put them in those barracks, I mean those sleeping quarters, in the hay and the straw and the dogs found out where the human being lay. They ask for the farmer to give them some of those forks, pitchforks. We call pitchforks; it was pitchforks what find out. If somebody hide over there, he hides himself by the wall, the wall is only a piece of board. There is more air to breath and easier to break out and escape next morning. You could see outside, those who hide, hide by the wall, blood comes out from the wall. Then they knew somebody’s over there see. Then they go and dig them out and they kill them. What one incident, which I could not and will not understand. Not being a professional person, not being an anthropologist, not but everybody has a philosophy of life, which I admit, Doctor Frankel tells you. He was in Auschwitz I was never in Auschwitz. What we stopped the provocation of killing. We walked by, a train passed by, we had to wait for the train to bypass, and we stood, and this side from the train was a big ravine, a big ditch. But we Europeans knew about it, what it is. Here through sophistication is how storage food. Europe storaged potatoes, the harvesting of potatoes comes late in the fall. How you storage potatoes? You put them in a ravine, a ditch you put it inside; you put straw on the bottom a little bit. I mean a ravine, which is half a block big, where six farmers go together and build those things, and on top, they put straw, and hay, and more dirt on top of it and this stays until the next year ok, not the next year, early spring. Early spring, they dig it out, and sell it by the market and here this end of April beginning of May, we knew what this is. Looked inside, they left some potatoes, some carrots, some onions. They claim everything, which comes from the ground, can be saved in the ground. Grains couldn’t be do it. Wheat couldn’t be done it. But those comes from the ground pick it up. We saw laying those potatoes were rotten already, carrots rotten already, why pick this up leave it over there. Covered it up and goodbye. But we knew what this is, and while the train passed already, we still stay over there. Why I do not know maybe, we thought another train going bypass here. We are standing and standing, there was about fifty of us. I was one of the first ones, the tenth or the fifteen or the twenty whatever. Knew about it, I was we dealt with farmers at home, we had home wheat business, which we dealt from the farmer to the flourmill. We were the liaison between the farmer and the flourmill. Then I know farmers did. So, we jumped in, in this ditch, in that ravine, and picked up those rotten potatoes. We started eating them by the time we get in pockets. Suddenly, bang, we hear machine guns. Those machine guns sound to me, if I one time, one time I went to Wagner’s opera the Valkyries, saw the drums over there with the Valkyries. If I hear machine gun, whenever I hear machine gun, I know what it is. We were laying there when somebody hear machine gun we lay down. While we are laying, we ate rotten potatoes. Suddenly I felt a guy on top of me, and I felt a liquid, a warm liquid comes to my neck. I said where that warm liquid comes from, and I put my hand picked up here and I saw blood. I said maybe it’s my blood, but I didn’t feel, I didn’t get shot. I was on the bottom, and I don’t feel like a bullet in me. The guy on top of me or two guys on top of me or laying besides me, they got shot. Suddenly I hear while I do those things, out, come out. Yelling come out with the machineguns like that, there were three or four standing on top, out. We saw those who walked out on top, those who got shot first. One walked out blood coming still from the hand or the leg or from here, he got wounded. They saw blood on his face, blood dripping from his leg, he got shot, right there. Now you see why I am walking slow motion, I know I am going to get killed over there, with the machine guns like that three or four Germans with machine guns. I knew I had blood on my back, I wipe myself off and I wasn’t injured at all many of them is, about, about half, no less than half. I would say about fifty of them was over there may be about twenty of them didn’t get injured. If they were injured, it wasn’t visible to them. I wiped myself and come out, yes. When I came out, one of the biggest biggest killer a young man younger than I, he was maybe I was then about twenty-four, he was maybe twenty, and I know he was a Yugoslavian Croatian. We knew who he was. We knew who he was. He wouldn’t speak English, but Slovakian language, Yugoslavian language I could understand a little bit. He could speak a little bit German. I could be speaking more German than he was. If he didn’t kill two three people a day, he didn’t live, he did not live. Suddenly he picks me up, which he did, he happened to like me, I, when I walked, he guarded me; he guarded my side, my side. I thought what he guarded me for. If somebody come to push me, another guard, he pushed him away. Try to understand the human race human behavior I do not. Why, I do not know. I do not know. This is one instance, there is more than this took place every day, every day, same thing but this was the worst one ok. I might one that we walked, it was too late, we couldn’t reach the point where they intend to, for this particular farmer. I don’t know, somebody told them this farmer has more bread I don’t know. Was dark already, and a train passed by again, we stopped, stopped for the train. Suddenly I see light, there somebody climbs the telephone pole, not far from us he waved his hand, with the light you could see him. Two or three people walked to him, what you are doing. I said walking from Buchenwald we come from Buchenwald now. You must be hungry. I said yes. The house was next to him, but he told us this is not my house, but everyone this house maybe has some bread, and give you some bread. He went to this house and came back, they have no bread, nobody home, just a few children at home, and they are sleeping. He picked up a package of six cigars, and gave it to us, a German. Didn’t know nothing about it, they didn’t know, I’m not going. With me on the march was a Hungarian medical student. A guy I know, what’s good about him, his name was Arthur Garfinkel. I never knew in my life; I never saw in my life. We start talking walking talking where you come from Poland, Hungry, what’s your name. I pulled my shirt 115,117, what’s your name 114,000. But then I asked the name, my name is Garfinkel. We got so friendly, so intimate; we talk a whole way what to do about it. So, when I got those six cigars and I told him about it. You know what, I said I have a guard here, a Hungarian, a criminal, a murderer he loves cigars. The one thing they didn’t have was cigarettes. You know what they did for cigarettes, was pick up a leaf on the road, he rolled them, and smoked them. He took one cigar, gave him the cigar, one at a time and I then get a slice of bread. Come back give me another cigar, I give him two cigars, he gives me two slices of bread and we ate them. A day later, he says have any more cigars, because at lunch period, they all sit down and ate, and we sit on the other side, but we know what they are doing they are eating. I give him another one. He came by and says I won’t give you any more bread, give me two more cigars, I don’t get more than six. I gave two before, two more again now, give me two more I don’t have anymore, ok, I gave it to him. Then asked him for bread, I no bread for you. I said where you get the cigars from, you call me, come on maybe he look at you, and I translate what you have to say to him, he understands a little German too, ask him for bread, ask him for bread. He picked up his cigars and I told him open your mouth. You know what I told him, I told one time a Nazi too, reported me in the camp, I told him the same thing, I told him open your mouth. I said you know what I can tell you, I wasn’t afraid anymore, but I wanted to survive. I told him this; if you want to kill me kill me. If you want to kill your friend, he is from Hungary too kill him. But please, give me the slice of bread first; let me finish it first than kill me. He kicked me run away before I kill you now, he smiled. It’s not the killing, it is dehumanization, it is taking away my existence of living. How to kill, be entertained of killing, didn’t know how to kill anymore. Woken up on the farmer’s place, we had water over there, walk down and how many of us water, water horse, wash ourselves. One time we saw two Nazi guards talking to each other, I don’t know, coming by, picked up, and dragged him someplace. Picked up a water hose and put the water in his mouth and put a rag over his mouth and tied the hose and turned the water hose on and called about four or five of his comrades. And, be entertained as a human being dies from inside, a balloon. I know God kill me please, being entertained while he dies from inside, not from outside. What I write of the death march, each day comes memories back to me, was not a day, which I can’t. One person survived, two survived, the last one in New York died, the one in Islip New York a Rabbi, he’s a Rabbi now, his name is Fleischanko, now he calls it Fleisch, Henrick Fleisch, Fleischer, sorry, coincidently I didn’t meet him yet. I call him a few times. I didn’t know he was a Rabbi and I called him once on a Friday night. I called him on Sunday again, he said don’t call me Friday I don’t answer the phone.

We went to Toronto; see my wife was born in Toronto. From Toronto, we brought a girl over here from Toronto. The girl’s grandmother lives over here in Detroit. We talk on the way home who she is. She told me, oh, my grandfather was a survivor from Buchenwald, my mother told me this. What’s his name? Fleishick, I don’t know Fleishick. Then dropped off over here, to the other grandmother. Then I ask her; give me the phone number for Fleishick. She gave me the phone number and I called him up. Thanks to him I survived to, you know what this man did. Now you can cry and smile at the same time. We walked through a forest on the outskirts of Buchenwald; I think it was close to Leipzig. I recall we saw a dead horse laying around. We saw cut off horse’s heads laying around. We knew it what we found out later on. This forest had little wagons, some are Germans had horses, I mean the army. Cutting apart, legs, heads, and they told us that this was done about two days before, and one of the Nazis, was one guy what we had over there on the march, little wagons, like a donkey wagon. They need those things, to transport for the Nazis, for the guards, or to put in food what they organized from farmers. Was about four or five of those wagons, but one wagon was also kept in case we walked through a city, or through a village. With German inhabitants living over there, and suddenly one of the inmates fell down, he couldn’t walk, they wouldn’t kill him in front of people. They wouldn’t kill him in front of even the German people. They wouldn’t do it. Then they put them in these wagons, and we come to outskirts of the city, where pull us take them out and kill them. This was already made special for this purpose. We are coming out of the forest, we walked in over there to bury those who laying on the wagon, even if he got back to his health, nothing helps. We saw some horses laying there, dead horses. One of the Nazis, I don’t know, one of the guards, must be nice guy, he’s a killer too. What he did, he picked up two pails, some place, one a big pail, one a small pail. In the big pail he makes holes with a knife or a hammer I don’t know what, make holes. He picked up branches from the trees and light them up, in the small pail put inside where the fire is and he himself he got a hedge I don’t know what they did, and he cut off a piece of leg from a horse, and put it in the pail with water. While we walked, with a piece of wire hanging under the wagon, the pail and this was smoking, it boiled, and we walked like that. This why, this helped my survival too, because I wind up before I forgot to tell you, in walking from Buchenwald we had those wagons right away made up. They asked volunteers who will push those wagons each wagon needs five people. Need five people, one to steer the front, not a big wagon not a big horse wagon but small, one in the front steering it, and each in each corner. With this is Mister Fleishick, who is a Rabbi named Fleischer now in New York, I was a pusher, and he was the steering in the front, and I volunteered for one reason, because my hand had the bandages on. If people, see my hand is bandaged they’ll kill me. I put my hand a little blanket I have, this blanket every time I cut off a little piece of it, torn apart. Put my hand in the pocket with the bandage as much as I could, and with one hand, I pushed the wagon, which means, I’m healthy. The same wagon with Mister Fleischer, Fleishick, pushed the wagon, and everyday I get a little horse soup. We were going on for days and days, the same bone, the same horse, the same piece of leg, the same soup. We just add water too it; somebody comes okay give me a little bit, put more water in it. Now how can I make, convey people like you, it’s impossible, it’s impossible.

I told you, I just came back yesterday, no Friday, wait a minute Thursday, in a school, which I refuse to go, elementary school teacher, elementary students, and I told the teacher, I got the name over here. I told the Misses Fall I will never go there. Not that I will reveal it to them I will not, but if they will ask a question, I never lied to my children and I will never lie to them, I will tell them what took place. The wintertime when I came to you, I went to another school, and I told them in Harper Woods if you bring some of the parents , see I’m over there, I say I won’t make you responsible you are their teacher only, you are not the parents. She called me back, all the parents cannot come, you know Nate what happened, both are working now, their mothers and fathers are working. I can bring about forty percent, whatever you bring to the side of me, and I went to the school on Tuesday at 1:30. This what I tell you, how can I a child yes, not the children the mother was there. One Jewish mother, one Jewish student, I am talking Mount Clemens, you know where it is, yes Mount Clemens, it’s not that far. I took Groesbeck highway to sixteen-mile road and made a left hand turn on Huron Parkway. And this took place on the death march, ten percent of us survived. From the ninth of April, walking out they give us a portion of bread when we walked out from Buchenwald, a portion of bread, with some marmalade, and this is what we ate the whole length of the road. This Mister Garfinkel a Hungarian medical student who finished medical studies in Munich after the war, he told us that early spring, certain grass is nourishable. Early spring, we ate grass; instead, it wasn’t good because some people died who tried to eat it. The one thing I can tell you, when we were liberated the seventh of May, was the next day the war came to an end, if the march would take another day, I mean if the war would take to the ninth of May, nobody would be of us, nobody. Buchenwald to Laufen, a little, I would say, Laufen is a city, they liberate not far from Laufen on the Austrian border, Austrian border. The cross the border is a river called Salzach its name after Zisecook, the other side is Zisecook. Liberate the seventh of May, in the evening, 1945.

Unbelievable, luckily, luckily, when they came in to liberate, see by the seventh of May, we didn’t know the Nazis were not there no more. They left that evening, this time was the farmers, they had to escape, they had to escape fast was not good for the farmers. They put us in a former jail. Was a jail before, a woman jail, was empty? Put us up right there, we looked out the seventh day morning, we looked out, we looked out seventh day morning, nobody there, nobody’s there. The wagons are standing, no guards. In the evening came two GIs, happened to be a Polish GI and a Jewish GI. The Jewish GI couldn’t speak any Jewish but a few words, but a few words he could speak. We were afraid of them, I never saw a GI in my life, every soldier is a criminal, every soldier is a murderer, every soldier is a killer, isn’t it? Whoever kills is the enemy, to this day I don’t know, another Nazi collaborator, who cares, killing again. One starts speaking Polish, and we know who they are. What they did, what took place in this liberation, and we are laying over there. Was one inmate I found out, he could imitate anybody, he could speak to an Italian thinks your Italian, the accent. He recognized a Jewish soldier, it was his cousin, but the Jewish soldier didn’t recognize him, because the American came a few years before, came with his parents to Poland to visit his friends or his relatives okay. He didn’t change but he kept moving he change a lot, his beard got to here, looks like an ape. He looked at him and said, aren’t you my cousin, he fell on top of him, they both fell down on the ground and then the Polish soldier came in, was going to kill him. How to, how can you make sense this. This took place and what the GIs did later on come evening, came a whole little truck a little truck, Army truck, this was the worst thing that they done to us. They brought care packages, which they shouldn’t have done. Was two of us, two from sixteen hundred, one hundred and sixty-four survived. I couldn’t eat anymore, I was lucky, because, from the food only four died. I was lucky because the German hospital helped us a lot. What they did, to two people a care package, I never saw my life a care package, what a care package looks like, I don’t know what it is. The next to me I got with another boy a whole package, on this side another one another package. The other boy with his partner couldn’t move his hand anymore he opened the package. Guess what fell out from the package first, a cake of soap, a little cake of soap, facial soap, I don’t know, possible Palmolive or Crescent, I don’t know what it was. He started eating the soap, he knows what he is eating, no, soap is lard. How do you make soap, fat isn’t it? I said what you are eating now. Its fat they liberated now, let us eat. What we don’t know what a care package is, and other kid next to him, said how about open this side. Then my partner opens the other side. So, came fell out, chocolate, candies, crackers, cookies and we ate us all those things up. Those who ate too much died the next day, the eighth of May. They took us all too a little hospital in Laufen, in the hospital over there only four died. The doctor came in, announced over there, you are lucky you came now, if you would come another day more would die. Because the stomach wouldn’t take it, they caught diarrhea and you couldn’t do it. Thanks to the hospital exactly one hundred and sixty survived and four died. I tell you if you ever want to know I give you the address to Mister Fleishick, he’s a Rabbi now. The weight, you would more understand Al, the weight what I weighed. My weight then, the only words I could see, I couldn’t see my temperature, I couldn’t see my blood pressure, I couldn’t see it, I don’t know what it is. I was an ape, the one thing I knew, I looked at the scale, in the metric system I weighed forty-two kilograms, this is in our system eighty-four pounds. I was one of the heaviest ones. I wasn’t heavy I know a guy next to me in bed, the hospital wasn’t like here for biggest amount people more condensed here is four people in a hospital in a room right. This was ten or twelve, an old hospital. Next to me he weighs fifty-seven pounds, he was even shorter than I. You can survive if you have water; you have medical treatment, because you fight the liquid, not the dehydration. Hunger not as bad as dehydration and we survived. Another thing we survived, I’ll tell you an incident that comes back to me, the happiest time, in my, in the death march you could be the happiest time in a few minutes. We walked through it in the daytime; suddenly we see two airplanes coming down like diving on us, two airplanes. As little blanket I have, was a very big blanket I shared a half blanket with another guy, only blanket I needed I told him because I push the wagon, I’m fortunate, to cover my hand. Suddenly see, they came zooming low, diving at us, that we could see the goggles on the pilot. Suddenly I see a Nazi, put sit down, picked up my blanket, and cover himself up. I said, what is this? Now I know what the star is, an American plane. Were Americans, another I think was that came were Canadians, I don’t know what it was. He was afraid that the airplane come down and see maybe it is an army going here they destroy the army. But he came so close with the goggles and saw what it is here, maybe they thought it be apes. But they would see a uniform, they would kill him maybe, and kill me too, I don’t care. We were ready to yell to them, bomb us all. The biggest satisfaction in my life was a Nazi criminal comes in and asks me to protect him with my blanket. Understand it, which means I helped him. Is a book written, if you want, I promised somebody else? Wiesenthal wrote a book about maybe you read about it, The Sunflower. What should I do with a Nazi that asks for forgiveness, The Sunflower?

From Tunisia, you know that Tunisia was over by France before the war. She married him, and they have a Sephardic temple there too, they call it Kwelnitch. Rabbi Kaplan is over here. Rabbi Kaplan was the Rabbi and I met him over there, now I see him over here. This Kaplan over here someplace I saw it. Here Jacob Kaplan is the first one. He was an old man I think he died by now, he married my cousin, through my cousin by marriage, Tunisian man.

Previous to the war, I keep going go stay away from it. Since I told my father, why you are doing those things, kill yourself. If not my father than over there, I stop praying ok with one thing I did pray my mother told me go pray. I told her how God can listen to my prayer every day the same thing, the Auschka Lushva, the same thing. He made me in his image, I tried to discuss with my father couldn’t do it, ok, he couldn’t take it. But my mother could understand it. How can I be I compare myself if I am in the God’s image, how much can I say thank you God, thank you God? She goes I tell you one son do me one favor, go and take half an hour to dovin. I said for you mother, yes. Not one minute further, my father didn’t care about it. Whatever you do, oh what he understood I don’t know.

PART 3

NATHAN GARFINKEL

3/8/92 SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN

 

There is a beautiful teacher over there, Mrs. Mandel; she gave me this book The Sunflower. She organized this book over there. And the kids came the kids, she prepared those kids, high school, you know where Grove high school is. One time I came, a student asked me over there, went two times, three times. One happened to be a Jewish girl I happened to know her, and she asked me about, do I belong to a Temple. I say no. I say why. I don’t believe in organized religion. That’s ok. Then what is your religion? Religion to me is a philosophy of life it’s good. If this helps me, I do it. If this helps you, do it. The last time, about two months ago three months ago was again. And they asked me, I got it written down over here if you want to see it, I will show you, the teacher asked me would you write back. Would I see this girl? Then I asked the teacher again, if this girl is Jewish, I will right away. If the girl is not Jewish, I will right away. To a Jewish girl I will take my time to tell everything. But this one is different. She asked me if I believe in God. And I asked what should I tell? She said whatever you do Nate do it. Those students, if they ask you for an answer, please answer them. And I answered it. Guess what the answer is. Nobody ever gave me a definition of God. Do you know a definition of it? If it is let it be. But please God, did you ever read The Chosen One, The Chosen One, he said over there you are the chosen people of the whole world. If I am the chosen people, I don’t want to be. I want to be equal with anybody else, I believe in equality. That’s a discussion we can keep without anybody. I want to be equal with anybody else. If this is the chosen people of the creator, I went to a Shiva a friend of ours died, in Oak Park, last week, last day. Came a Rabbi over there and say, as you know when God gave the torah, is a version of it according to Talmudic stories, before he came to meet with the Jews he came to other nationalities, take it, nobody wants it, came to the Jews last want it. Picked up the Mount Sinai in his hands go under, it’s only a biblical story, here go under it, he told them which means do and listen. What is this, do and listen, have to listen and do, right? This Rabbi couldn’t come out and tell me the answer to this story. But whatever I am, whatever I am Al, if Nazi Germany made me for a Jew, I am. I am proud of it. If Mister Arafat made me for a Zionist, I am not. I hope you understand what I mean to say.

My father said sit and do nothing, because my brother who wind up from the Polish army, to wind up a Russian POW, sent him to a coal mine, in Dumbas, in the Russian part of Russia, and he had in Poland, he had a wife and two children. He wants to come back. Before the war started between Nazi Germany and Russia, he came back to Ukraine, Lembeck. You heard about Lembeck. He winds up over there under occupied territory under Russia. When Germany attacked, June 22, Nazi Germany attacked Russia, and took over Lembeck. Before Lembeck took over by the Nazis, two days before, Ukrainians killed Jews. They told him take his wife and two children come to Russia, my father wouldn’t go. And I wouldn’t go by myself, if we go all together. I intend to go into hiding, but I wouldn’t go without my sisters. We made plans to escape in hiding, but for two reasons I didn’t go. For hiding, you have to go outside. And somebody would open the door for you. There was no place to go. There was no communication. The second reason I didn’t go was because of leaving my sisters alone. The only reason we intend to go hiding was to look for the underground movement and fight back. But to find them, how will I find them, I have no communication.

When liquidating the ghetto for the first time they transported us by trucks to the station was about thirty-two kilometers exactly to the train. What I can describe you there was kicking dogs. If you did not jump on the truck fast enough the dog bit you, tore your pants apart. And so, the same thing happens to you to the train, to the wagons to the cars, the railroad cars. But the one thing, which I start, understand dehumanization, by the train, still there, I was in Kielce last year, the park is still there by the train, by the station, is still a park. People waiting for the station some of them sitting in the park and the rest of them over there eat outside don’t go inside, a little park. We had to wait for the train, walking distance to the train away. What the Nazis did, stay two three yards so you don’t go to the bathroom. Was woman other side being men this side. They told we have to take a leak, they said drop your pants and sit down. Because for certain kind of weed grass, what you call the grass the touch its burns you, wild grass some kind I forgot its name, a certain grass which is picky. To sit you are in it, standing up nothing, but you sit down burns your butt. They made you sit down, drop your pants, made you sit down. And while we sit down, we stood up and cover my pants he could tell the dog take him. Then he holds my pants down I could not pick up my pants. While a few of them standing like that and the dog sticks us they called Polish people, see these are not Polish people these are Jews that’s what he said. Look at this as human being, he makes in the grass. This is the issue, the personal of my privacy, and show somebody a show, make a show, he cannot go don’t go. If you have to go drop your pants and pick up your clothes and bitted. Luckily, the train came in about an hour two hours later. Some of the people smiled or to satisfy that the show the bizarre show was nice, ok. Or what they did, this time they couldn’t help, but in the same city, maybe you can recall it, I got written down, down here, I got the paper, the fourth of July, 1946, Kielce pogrom, did you hear about it? After the war, people returned and were attacked by Polish anti-Semites. You know how many got killed over there, two from my hometown, ok. My cousin who died in Israel later on, he got injured over there. Know what they were, the same thing as The Fixer was, a police officer came by and said those Jews caught a girl here, and a lady stood up and said yes, later the lady she was arrested. She told me later that the priest told me to do it, was not true. My friend lives now in Toronto, his name is Quesinfofski according to he came from Russia he came back, and he was a secret policeman from the Ankarta dare, ok. He is deal some of them, but when the take eleven from those who got arrested, they got death sentence. The Russians did it, eleven only, ok. What ever it is, if I read the paper every day, I wrote something to The Jewish News they wouldn’t print it. Tell you one thing; the President of East Germany is hiding in Russia in the Chile embassy. The German, West Germany asked him to ship him back to Germany, they never asked Mister Mengele to ship back. I was in Germany last year, I know it, I saw it, ok. I am afraid I am Communist I was called Communist too. I been over there everything called. Where are you, Germany now. Mister Cohen the only German, who was nice, Willie Brandt, you know why, he was hiding in Norway away from the Nazis, he was a Social Democrat. He was out, the Nazis will come back, not in East Germany but in West Germany, don’t believe them. The man who was a Communist, what he did, kill people, the Nazis killed people before him. Mengele, you know Mengele got caught by whom, the Mossad ok. A Jewish lady from Germany got killed over there, ok, for looking for him.

Work only was not our work but out to work. If I was went out to work, they could organize a slice of bread, like a farmer. Farmers who we knew about it tried to help us. I got to Buchenwald by cattle car. This was the worst cattle car I have ever been. I was in two cattle three cattle cars. This was the worst one this was from Czestochowa. November 9, 9 November 1940, this was a cold day. First of all, from Czestochowa to Buchenwald I would say is about nine hundred miles. Could take us two days three days, but this time we couldn’t make it because the Russians came close enough to the Germans then the Germans escape from the East to the West by trains by anything. And in each station, we had to stay a few two hours, a day, the passenger trains first than the army was second. We go inside we called ourselves the standing sardines. What took place on this, all this before, took a day or two you can live without food without you can. This took place about ten to two weeks, I can’t recall it, we weighed less I didn’t say happy cause some of us died, those who died put them in the corner of the car, then we had more place to walk around, be happy your friend is laying over there dead, not happy I would say glad. This tells you which how we can how can I say I’m glad seeing my friend is laying and dying. One time we stopped at a station; I think it was Leipzig I forgot which station we stood over there about two three days frozen. If we yell out for water. We go out to the bathroom by the door. And one time a friend of mine his name was Karl I remember him from the hometown he said I have to go. I pick him up on my shoulders with his body in front of me and put his body to the window and said do it now. Suddenly a shot, he got shot, because they saw us in by the window and not a glass window ok, it’s not open but bars. Some of his blood coming down from me and I dropped him. I said I am sorry. I did it I killed him. If I didn’t pick him up, he wouldn’t be dead. Coming to Buchenwald and asked for water, they put water in the windows, in the station. We froze better with the water. When we came to Buchenwald, those who were healthy threw out those dead ones. Ever see a coat of ice on a human being from the water they put through the windows. They we called as human popsicles. Ever read the book about Leningrad, human popsicles. About half of them half of us survived coming to Buchenwald, because the time took so long. In Buchenwald was the best compared to Leipzig. I got a teacher from my hometown there too. Mister Cohen the walking encyclopedia. I am glad he died and didn’t get killed. A day before he died, I met him, he told me, whoever survives he told me, you will make it Nate, he was much older, he was then in his thirties. The man spoke four languages. If we survive, I speak for him and my parents, not for me, not for me. Those who not here, those you cannot see, those you cannot hear, those are not physically visible, ashes, for those I speak. As long as I live, any place anywhere, I didn’t go to those people, here’s another letter I just receive it last week.

This the appell, in Buchenwald it wasn’t as bad, I remember one thing, one appell. A friend of mine, my hometown two brothers, you see, if you do not come a day to work, they took for granted you must be sick because you know you are going to die if you don’t come to work. Two brothers, Abramovich was their name, their father was a tailor, big tailor owned his own store. Those two brothers were together, but this brother couldn’t go to work the previous day. The next day the Jewish policeman came up and said this number doesn’t go to work, and his brother was outside on appell standing outside to be counted. Like this, barrack number one, send out one hundred people to work. The guard stays outside, the policeman takes them outside take them. He said you not going to work. A man from the barrack was about three four steps wooden steps from the barrack. I forgot their first names; one was Joseph, Joseph I forgot the last name. But while we were standing outside in front of the barrack, to be counted and wait, for the other barracks to be, we were all going out. And this brother came the Jewish policeman, with somebody Jewish who distribute the bread and give this brother before he is going to die a slice of bread, a portion of bread. I think there was marmalade too; they usually gave you a little marmalade on top. And he stood on the steps on the doorsteps going down, the policeman, the Jewish policeman watch him not to go out. If he goes out, he could mingle with us and go to work. He can’t go to work and biting his bread he started biting his bread and he told his brother I am going to die anyway you know about it, take, and the Jewish policeman took his half a loaf of bread and give it to his brother, Abramovich took the bread, and walked crying eating the bread. I could see he couldn’t swallow it; he was biting it but couldn’t swallow it. Then the brother stood over there, you know what; take another piece because I am going to die anyway. This I remember he told him one thing there is a biblical story when the first Temple was burned, don’t forget what Amulek ever done to us.

 

 I was not in a displaced person’s camp long enough, because after being transferred from hospital to hospital they have to have my address displaced person that I belonged to this camp.  Every time I been sent out from this hospital because first thing, I was in Laufen, from Laufen I went to Gauteng.  Gauteng was a TB sanatorium, because every one of us got faced with TB there.  It was quarantine, when I sent out from over there to another hospital, because quarantine was only quarantine later on was selected those with positive.  They put this a different quarantine, those with negative, as soon as they healed them, they put them out.  Me they put me out in a Munich hospital then they could operate on my hand.  Then I have to have an address when they shipped me out to the other hospital where my camp is, that’s why I belonged to this camp the DP camp.  Compared to before it wasn’t bad, it was a Heaven, we were free.  Some were a barracks some were a home we could everywhere, we could everywhere, look back a year before this was heaven.  But later on, found out it’s not a Heaven, okay.  There’s no limit to goodness.  I left Europe in 1951 and went to New York.  I had a good life, compared with whether I traveled or not, every time I was out from the hospital I was free.  I didn’t sit in the displaced camp, I traveled, I liked to see the outside.  I liked to sense the German people, and I sensed them.  Not being knowledgeable about it, but I sensed those things, this is why I said this is not over.  I met friends in Berlin, in Munich, in Salzburg, and Salzburg was in war sometimes too.  But in Berlin, I love Berlin, I just been there last summer I was in Berlin, beautiful city.  Beautiful friends who opposed Nazi Germany.  Al, guess where they took me, and I love stage shows, they took me to see The Merchant of Venice, but later we discussed with the family over there, tell me why you done it, why you done it this, to justify, to make me for a Shylock.  The next time I was next to Berlin, guess where they took me then, Charles Dickens, Oliver.  This I sensed it, but I cannot accuse them, they are trying to make a clean up a little bit what I had before.  This was nice liberal people with the nationality was the highest, then their dignity, then their humanity.  I have nothing against them.

 

            The world knew a lot, they could have prevented this ahead of time.  If you read Mein Kampf, at least I did, this was not written by Hitler alone.  You know who edited this book, Mr. Hess, who just died four years ago.  Mr. Ribbentrop edit it, they edited it because Hitler wasn’t a writer, he was a rhetoric, okay.  He couldn’t help them out, get everybody in, he was right sometimes, and he could use it.  A powerful speaker, a rhetoric speaker, okay.  This book tells you communists were his first enemy, and the Jews were communists we stand for that.  In the thirties and the forties, we stand for that.  We have to have somebody in Europe to fight communism, okay.  I’m afraid to say it because people call me communist, my sister survived under communism, my brother-in-law lives now in Toronto, he will tell you what took place over there.  If he wouldn’t have escaped with wife, my sister, with his daughter, my niece who lives now in Toronto, they wouldn’t have survived.  This why I will never, last week it was in paper, a little dead man, a cartoon, I read about it in the Free Press about the kids, they have some ideas.  Lays a man with his shoes outside, democracy, communism is here and why didn’t they put fascism on the bottom of this foot.  Under fascist Germany, I couldn’t survive, but under communism I could go out, I’m a communist, I survived, right.  What ever it is, I can survive, but we didn’t think about it.  Build up Hitler against Communism.  We had to support him.  Father Coughlin here, the priest here, Little Flower on Twelve, and Woodward, you know who he was, he was a priest, the biggest anti-Semite, he organized Mr. Ford, the first Ford.  If you ever read the biography of Mr. First Ford, the biggest anti-Semite, you ever hear about The Dearborn Independent, okay, he supported Hitler.

 

            The guilty should be caught and bring to justice.  The people that stood by, watched, and did nothing are guilty.  I am guilty, I have a guilty conscience, I survived.  Ambrovovitch didn’t survive, none of them, why did I survive.  This is why I pay back; I repent by telling you what my teacher told me.  Raul Hilberg said the other day, and in his book too, ‘In the path of history there is no innocent bystanders,’ there is none.  Never stop, the statute has no limitation.  There is no limitation for this thing.  By now we can’t find them anymore, they are mostly dead.  A statute of limitations against a Nazi that killed thousands of people, make a statute of limitations over it.  Who wins if there is a limitation, West Germany wins?

 

            If I ran into a Kapo or guard, I would just call the FBI, the CIA, to arrest him and bring him to justice.  Not like the Nuremberg trials.  The Nuremberg trial was a hoax.  Mengele could go over there.  Bormann could go to; you know who put Mengele to South America.  We and the Vatican, the Vatican mainly.  South America is ninety percent Catholics; over there they can find sanctuary.  In the Vatican is a holy man, you can take those people, you can help those people.

 

            Freedom of speech has a limit.  A famous Supreme Court judge said, Oliver Wendell Holmes, ‘You have the freedom to go any place you want to, freedom of speech, but the freedom stops when you go to a house, a coffee house, a movie house and yell fire.’  This is different.  If my freedom stops, with my fist in front of your nose but not in your nose, my freedom stops to have a gun here and shoot.  Take the gun away from me.

 

            The Holocaust helps my present life because it gives me a sense of relief, to people like you, to give out what I feel.  If the Holocaust Center would not have been built, I do not know what would have happened to me, I do not know.  I could not speak to my wife.  The sense of relief I have, I go out and I am consistent with those, my teachers, my parents, my loved ones who didn’t make it.  I have a sense of relief, and for the rest of my life, as much as I can, any place, anywhere.  If you want to take me to your children, I will go any place, and let their parents come too, and if they cannot make it, okay.

 

            The Holocaust, first of all, as much as I don’t know, but I know a little, I know enough that I do not know, okay.  I call it genocide; it was more than a Holocaust it was genocide.  Because a lot of Jewish people, in Germany there was only six hundred thousand Jews, a fraction of the population in Germany, from seventy million, a little over a half a million, three hundred thousand of them didn’t know they were Jews.  Three hundred thousand of them were converted or assimilated.  I was with one over there, I wasn’t with him, I saw him, how he was treated.  He was a Hitler youth organizer.  I have one thing.  We should open our minds and be aware; not speaking with vengeance, not speaking with hate, not speaking with anger, this my mother’s side, this should be not forgotten.  The one thing not to forget is education, education, because a bigot has no education.  The only thing, which can help us all, the human race, is to know what tomorrow can bring; we can prevent it.  We are all neighbors, like the proverb says; love thy neighbor as thy self.

 

 At first, you were a musselman, skinny, then you swell up, which is worse than a musselman, then you know you are dying.  It got worse when they started drinking water to help themselves.  The water swelled themselves up and you couldn’t urinate, this why it swells up.  This why I was almost swelled up like that, this is why, skinny, bones.

 

 Organizing food, by organizing food, certain people work outside, like one time I worked outside building the foundation of a hospital.  Then if you outside you see people walk around.  You organize food, ask for food sometimes, give you a piece of food.  Or sometimes if you have money, if you have money, certain people have contact those who are traveling around outside.  What they are baking, and if you offer some Polish people there, give something for a loaf of bread.  Come back; get a piece of loaf of bread, for bringing this bread.  Because the Jewish police were better off, they could help you organize too, if they’re nice.  This what we mean organizing food.

 

            The only thing I saw exercising was running, they tell you to run and they call it killing while trying to escape, this only thing.  See in labor camps, the foremen for whom we worked, they were interested in me, I could work produce.  I found out after the war, you ever hear of Raul Hilberg the famous historian, he mentioned certain things over there that I didn’t know then.  When the German foreman for who I produced, he was interested in me to produce. And with more production, I put out, the more I produce, he gets later on bonuses, Raul Hilberg told me I didn’t even know about it.  Like here, a boss gets bonuses; he is interested in me to produce.  And this why two or three foremen were nice to me, I met one after the war.  I met them after the war in Leipzig when I came testify against another Nazi.  He was a Nazi, a foreman, he helped me, helped me, not as much as Lofskofski who could help me more, but this person wouldn’t help me, he helped me.  I ran into this person by coincidence.  I tell you what happened.  After I got out of the hospital, see this hand, medical help didn’t exist, forget it.  A band-aid, they didn’t know what a band-aid is or what an aspirin is.  After the war, after the death march, after the bandages, after they put me in the hospital, I was in this hospital, not a small hospital not a small city.  Then my bandage, my hand got infected already and I came to this hospital, the doctor didn’t know one thing, it was infection it had been infected.  You had to cut off the infection some place cut now we cut the arm from here to here, if didn’t go away cut the arm up here.  I said if you are going to cut my arm, leave me alone.  I’m going to die leave me alone, I want an arm.  But luckily, to me the American army was a Jewish Captain over there in Munich, not far from Munich.  Penicillin got to be available.  Penicillin was discovered by a Canadian doctor, Fleming was it, I forgot who it was.  And the first thing right after the war the army had to have it, people got injured and infections, and the army had it.  Thanks to the Jewish captain, they provide penicillin for us and this cut down my infection, and by cutting down my infection, they could operate on me.  Then I was operated on my hand and took a piece of stomach and put it over here.  You know a kid asked me the other day, I forgot what school it was a High School, what you do if you have stomachache, grab your hand.

 

            There was a resistance movement, but it was not successful, not even once.  The Warsaw ghetto, the biggest one, nothing, because the reason why, because no help.  For instance, the Warsaw ghetto I was never there, I have a person that was over there.  They sent out to the Polish people, get me a revolver, ok, a ring here, if you have so many zlotys give it, they forgot to put any bullets in it.  Give them another ring they give you the bullets too.  See that is what happened the Warsaw ghetto, I was never there I know a person was there.  See I could kill a Nazi very easy, very easy, even the guard, I take a knife and stab him there and kill him and take his gun away.  I could never shoot a gun I don’t know how to do it, but some people could do it.  But I commit suicide the same time.  Not just I commit suicide, but I take to the same grave one hundred fifty people or twenty people, that’s what they did it.  If one escape they pick up two or three people and kill them at the same time.  If one Nazi got killed, they take twenty or fifty people and kill them at the same time.  Which means my conscience; take my conscience in the same grave for killing others who don’t want to die, this why didn’t happen.  Not just, I’m telling you, but each each survivor has a different experience in life.

 

            The death march, they could have come sooner the death march, or the army could come two days before to Buchenwald.  We were liberated on the eleventh we could have been liberated maybe the seventh of April see.  Ok, again, no allegations no accusations, Arthur Garfinkel told me, the one that died the day before the day later after I met him, he put his head on my knee, where are and I quote him, ‘there so-called civilized society, there so called, where were they.